Curse

Winterclaw · Jun 12, 2009, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Warriors are better for actually playing through the game and in PvP.
Sassis are better at some specific areas, such as farming/tanking with SF.

Arkantos · Jun 12, 2009, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

Warriors are...not as good as Sins when it comes to frontliner/farmer extraordinaire role...

They had their moment of glory prior to the SF buff...OF tank in DoA & Slavers, running most areas and what not...but then Anet buffed PvE skills like Asuran Scan & at the same time, buffed Shadow Form...from then on, Warriors are great only for PvP. In PvE, they are inferior to Sins in almost all aspects.

Lol?

Sure, assassins can tank/farm better than warriors because of SF. But you really think assassins are better frontliners than warriors?

1) Warriors dish out constant pressure. They don't rely on an attack chain.
2) If an attack skill gets blocked on an assassin, there goes lots of your damage.
3) Assassins can't AoE knockdown, warriors can.
4) If critical agility gets stripped, there goes your IAS/additional armor for up to 30 seconds.

I can go on, but I think you get the point. Warriors are superior frontliners. Also, it seems that you forgot the fact that asuran scan can be (and is) run on warriors.

Winterclaw · Jun 12, 2009, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Just don't use AS on bosses that have half hex duration because it'll drain your energy if you aren't running a W/E bar.

faraaz · Jun 12, 2009, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Lol?

Sure, assassins can tank/farm better than warriors because of SF. But you really think assassins are better frontliners than warriors?

1) Warriors dish out constant pressure. They don't rely on an attack chain.
2) If an attack skill gets blocked on an assassin, there goes lots of your damage.
3) Assassins can't AoE knockdown, warriors can.
4) If critical agility gets stripped, there goes your IAS/additional armor for up to 30 seconds.

I can go on, but I think you get the point. Warriors are superior frontliners. Also, it seems that you forgot the fact that asuran scan can be (and is) run on warriors.

I'm too lazy to do the line by line quote thing so I will use asterisks to answer to your post point by point.

* Assassin attack chains are pretty reliable in PvE. Golden Fox Strike -> Wild Strike -> Death Blossom is a staple, first two hits are unblockable, removes block stances & has aoe damage. Clearly superior to warrior. This isnt pvp

* Above mentioned chain has max recharge of 4 seconds, surely spammable even if blocked. Also, run in conjunction with Moebius strike, attack skills that are diverted or d-shotted are recharged if you have another dual available. However, these instances are extremely rare in PvE. Again, this isnt PvP.

* Assasins dont need to AoE knockdown. That is because they kill everything in 2-3 seconds...Warriors need to pressure, knockdown and all that crap because they cant kill as fast. AoHM Wounding Strike Crit Scythe sins are a classic example. Warriors with Scythes do significantly lower damage due to lack of crit hits with that massive base damage.

* Crit agility rarely gets stripped that fast. In realistic situations, Assassins are using a lot of cover enchants, such as way of the master, aura of holy might, crit defences, prot spirit, strength of honor etc etc (although these arent used by the sin himself, they are used very regularly in most melee based teams), not to mention things like orders etc which are cover enchant fodder. On the other hand, I find stance based IAS to be very limiting, in that it isnt "fire & forget" like crit agility on a Sin. Conflicting perspectives perhaps, but in PvE, I prefer Crit agility to any other stance based IAS.

* A sin with Crit Agility has the same base armor as a Warrior. Warriors do NOT make better frontliners. A sin with crit defence can hold aggro just as well as a Warrior. Micro'ing prots really evens out the playing field, and Guild Wars IS a team based game, where you need to have a team based approach.

* Here's why I mentioned the PvE Buff for Asuran Scan as a point in Sin's favor. Earlier, with the 2 sec cast time, Scan wasnt run on bars that much except for bosses and such. However, due to the reduced cast time, Scan became much more spammable. Currently, apart from Warrior's Endurance bars, few Warrior builds can afford to spam Asuran Scan as fast as a Sin can, given their superior energy regen & energy management ability (i.e crit strikes).

Feel free to dispute my point. I recognize your approach as one being held by a lot of players who favor warriors, but in the current PvE meta, I believe that Assassins are superior to Warriors, when used correctly.

Lishy · Jun 12, 2009, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Warriors are one of the main damage dealers of doa hero way :P

Though in reality, they truly shine at raptors and general PvE.
They make amazing SY spammers, for one, which is part of the sy chain unnoffical meta.

Also, feather farming. Anyone want the build?

faraaz · Jun 12, 2009, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Sure, anything that gives me a reason to play my warrior helps...but if you give a tactics stance spammer with riposte etc... I will hate you forever. =p

MisterB · Jun 12, 2009, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

* Here's why I mentioned the PvE Buff for Asuran Scan as a point in Sin's favor. Earlier, with the 2 sec cast time, Scan wasnt run on bars that much except for bosses and such. However, due to the reduced cast time, Scan became much more spammable. Currently, apart from Warrior's Endurance bars, few Warrior builds can afford to spam Asuran Scan as fast as a Sin can, given their superior energy regen & energy management ability (i.e crit strikes).

Zealous weapon, IAS, adrenaline skills. 5 energy every 5 seconds can be maintained. There's always whirlwind attack, too. DSlash/SY doesn't use a great deal of energy. Asuran Scan is not exclusive to Assassin primaries.

Neo Atomisk · Jun 12, 2009, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

* Here's why I mentioned the PvE Buff for Asuran Scan as a point in Sin's favor. Earlier, with the 2 sec cast time, Scan wasnt run on bars that much except for bosses and such. However, due to the reduced cast time, Scan became much more spammable. Currently, apart from Warrior's Endurance bars, few Warrior builds can afford to spam Asuran Scan as fast as a Sin can, given their superior energy regen & energy management ability (i.e crit strikes).

Dragon Slash
Brawling Headbutt
"Save Yourselves!"
Pain Inverter
"For Great Justice!"
Flail
Enraged Charge
Ressurection Signet

the only I time I have energy issues is when I get e-surge spammed by roaring ethers.

Arkantos · Jun 12, 2009, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

I'm too lazy to do the line by line quote thing so I will use asterisks to answer to your post point by point.

* Assassin attack chains are pretty reliable in PvE. Golden Fox Strike -> Wild Strike -> Death Blossom is a staple, first two hits are unblockable, removes block stances & has aoe damage. Clearly superior to warrior. This isnt pvp

* Above mentioned chain has max recharge of 4 seconds, surely spammable even if blocked. Also, run in conjunction with Moebius strike, attack skills that are diverted or d-shotted are recharged if you have another dual available. However, these instances are extremely rare in PvE. Again, this isnt PvP.

* Assasins dont need to AoE knockdown. That is because they kill everything in 2-3 seconds...Warriors need to pressure, knockdown and all that crap because they cant kill as fast. AoHM Wounding Strike Crit Scythe sins are a classic example. Warriors with Scythes do significantly lower damage due to lack of crit hits with that massive base damage.

* Crit agility rarely gets stripped that fast. In realistic situations, Assassins are using a lot of cover enchants, such as way of the master, aura of holy might, crit defences, prot spirit, strength of honor etc etc (although these arent used by the sin himself, they are used very regularly in most melee based teams), not to mention things like orders etc which are cover enchant fodder. On the other hand, I find stance based IAS to be very limiting, in that it isnt "fire & forget" like crit agility on a Sin. Conflicting perspectives perhaps, but in PvE, I prefer Crit agility to any other stance based IAS.

* A sin with Crit Agility has the same base armor as a Warrior. Warriors do NOT make better frontliners. A sin with crit defence can hold aggro just as well as a Warrior. Micro'ing prots really evens out the playing field, and Guild Wars IS a team based game, where you need to have a team based approach.

* Here's why I mentioned the PvE Buff for Asuran Scan as a point in Sin's favor. Earlier, with the 2 sec cast time, Scan wasnt run on bars that much except for bosses and such. However, due to the reduced cast time, Scan became much more spammable. Currently, apart from Warrior's Endurance bars, few Warrior builds can afford to spam Asuran Scan as fast as a Sin can, given their superior energy regen & energy management ability (i.e crit strikes).

Feel free to dispute my point. I recognize your approach as one being held by a lot of players who favor warriors, but in the current PvE meta, I believe that Assassins are superior to Warriors, when used correctly.

* When death blossom/moebius gets blocked, your damage goes down. Sure, it's a fast recharging chain, but it's still not constant pressure, unlike the warrior.

* Never said anything about diversion or dshot.

* Really? Go kill a mob in an elite HM area in 3 seconds, please. Sure, an assassin can kill faster than a ES warrior, but the ES vastly reduces the pressure your team is going to take. I'd rather take an extra 10 seconds to kill a mob knowing that my team isn't going to be wiping.

* True, but when it does get stripped, you're screwed. Warriors don't have that problem.

* Zealous weapons. Don't forget that in PvE it's most likely going to be one of a couple(if not the only) energy skills. Warriors have no problem spamming it.

If you want to talk about the current meta, both are useless, because no one runs physicals.

But seriously, assassins do good damage, but they'll never be better than a warrior.

faraaz · Jun 12, 2009, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

* When death blossom/moebius gets blocked, your damage goes down. Sure, it's a fast recharging chain, but it's still not constant pressure, unlike the warrior.

* Never said anything about diversion or dshot.

* Really? Go kill a mob in an elite HM area in 3 seconds, please. Sure, an assassin can kill faster than a ES warrior, but the ES vastly reduces the pressure your team is going to take. I'd rather take an extra 10 seconds to kill a mob knowing that my team isn't going to be wiping.

* True, but when it does get stripped, you're screwed. Warriors don't have that problem.

* Zealous weapons. Don't forget that in PvE it's most likely going to be one of a couple(if not the only) energy skills. Warriors have no problem spamming it.

If you want to talk about the current meta, both are useless, because no one runs physicals.

But seriously, assassins do good damage, but they'll never be better than a warrior.

If you are available in game I would love to do a couple HM missions with you

Until then, we just have to agree to disagree.

Saph · Jun 13, 2009, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

I'd say the problem actually has little to nothing to do with warriors. In fact, warriors are probably one of the most well balanced professions currently in the game. The real issue (and the reason you're usually SoL pugging with a warrior) is that several other classes are quite UNBALANCED at the moment. Necros with their soul repaing, Sins with Perma Shadow form, mesmers with echo-chained CoP and even Monks with echoed RoJ are all way over-powered. It was the same in the ursan days, when warriors were in high demand because of their higher armor. Whenever their are over-powered skills/capabilities the player base will abuse them to no end (and then QQ a river when something gets nerfed). Until Anet and the live team decide to actually do something to make the game experience well balanced, there will always be classes that are excluded from the "fun".

PS..if you think warriors are currently useless, try playing a rit or a non-imbagon Paragon. See how many pugs will take you then!

Ugh I'm so sick of this 'its unbalanced' argument. Something will always be unbalanced/overpowered. And everytime Anet tries to fix these discrepancies , they end up making something else overpowered. RoJ for example, was a useless skill, then people complained. They buffed it, now people still complain and QQ how its overpowered.

So what? This Utopia of perfectly balanced skills and professions will never exist. Instead of Anet and others trying to adapt everything to everyone's complaints, people need to adapt themselves to the game. Its as simple as that.

kvndoom · Jun 13, 2009, 12:31 AM // 00:31

I farm with my warrior still. Like anything else, it has its niche. I enjoy using her the most because I'm actually killing stuff actively and not waiting for enemies to suicide on my spells.

Obsidian Shards in FOW.

Icy Dragon Swords in Mineral Springs.

Charcoal and cheap unidentified golds in Sardelac.

Fiery/Icy Blade Axes in Plains of Jarin.

Strength of Honor is a wonderful skill! (picture was before the buff)

toocooltang · Jun 13, 2009, 12:57 AM // 00:57

warriors dont tank, they can pull and hold aggro but tank is so 2005

You got tons of options as a warrior. ES makes HM easy, dragons slash to give you tons of adren, and whirlwind when you got huge mobs with lots of aggro. Eviserate is also pretty good.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/11/gw170w.jpg

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/7929/gw152.jpg

Lux Aeterna · Jun 13, 2009, 11:12 PM // 23:12

You should never, ever, ever feel useless as a warrior.

When playing warrior, keep in mind 2 things:

1) You are the most imporant person on the battlefield.

2) You are the most awesome player within a fairly large radius.

Don't let anyone ever tell you different. That's why you have the /kick button.

Aztec Mijo · Jun 14, 2009, 01:29 AM // 01:29

lol, u have been gone a while.

i run my war as the main tank in many hm and elite areas that my guild runs weekly, u just need to know what ur proff and build can do.

we dont take hours to do a run either, with the exception of a full doa run.

_Nihilist_ · Jun 15, 2009, 08:47 AM // 08:47

kvndoom, you don't even have SoH on that bar... Your only Monk skills are Live Vicariously and Vigorous Spirit, both in Healing Prayers.

I haven't done much farming in the Plains of Jarin on my Warrior, so I thought (incorrectly, it appears) that the Mandragors carried some type of enchant removal. I guess not in the case of the Mandragors in Plains (which makes sense, it's a starter area, regardless of the fact that it's HM).

I'll have to check this out if that is the build you use to get me a few more FBA's and IBA's.

sweet555 · Jun 22, 2009, 10:40 AM // 10:40

go gvg... wars make or break a team.

Dante the Warlord · Jun 23, 2009, 02:27 AM // 02:27

If you can run a good enough group, wars can be excellent tanks and damage dealers. Not to mention with godmode, you can pretty much maintain SY. Blocks, blind, and misses are really bad for wars though.

I remember when sins were almost never taken and pretty much kicked out of every group. They were called the wannabe wars... but look at them now after a buff to one elite skill!

faraaz · Jun 23, 2009, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord

If you can run a good enough group, wars can be excellent tanks and damage dealers. Not to mention with godmode, you can pretty much maintain SY. Blocks, blind, and misses are really bad for wars though.

I remember when sins were almost never taken and pretty much kicked out of every group. They were called the wannabe wars... but look at them now after a buff to one elite skill!

Do you mean Moebius Strike? Because Sins dont use Shadow Form to pwn PvE...

Forgotton200 · Jun 23, 2009, 10:15 AM // 10:15

Is this some sort of "Maintainable DPS - Which Profession Is Best?" part 2 thread?

Warriors are superior than that of a assassin. Know your place, you insecure adolescent assassins.